"Great article! Thanks for the information. My father and his family were expelled, but only years after having lost their home, spending time in a camp and then been relocated to a communal farm. The experiences of his childhood remained with my father his whole life. I hope too, to one day visit the places in Poland my family called home. It would honour my father's memory and give my children a piece of their history."

Nora
Canada
Aug.10.2010
rates this page 3/5

" I liked your article. Can you tell me if there is a list of German families who were evicted at the end of WW2"

Patrick Murphy
United States
Aug.04.2010
rates this page 4/5

"Wolyn/Wolynia was EASTERN POLAND, between Lublin and Kiev. also known as Polska Republika 1 and Polska Republika II. these people were hammered by the Germans and then by the Russian army supposedly saving Poland in a treaty with Churchill. Germany and Russian tried to wipe Poland off the map. Until people see the big picture and see how the ugliness in human nature can be released, by bad politics, they will always find fault. it happened, what can they do now, its time to get on with life and make the world a better place for our children. work with what you have, dont keep bitterness and hate over what you lost, it is gone and unless you go back in time, history cannot be changed, but we can make the future better."

szymczak
Australia
Jul.30.2010
rates this page 4/5

"the history of the area is most interesting, with border changes and those that rebuild a city should be given many accolades, but when war and politice combine everyone is a victim. did the Polish people have a choice, escaping from Soviet Genocide in Western Poland, as did the Germans, Czechs, and many other nationalities who would not conform to the Soviet System. dont forget, that while Poland was being attack from the front by Germans, it was also being squeezed and wiped out by Germany's buddy at the time Russia. about 40-60,000 Polish people perished under the Soviets, along with Germans, who lived side by side in peace, until the Soviets either expelled them or murdered them in the area which is now Ukraine. Many of the German/Polish villages on the Soviet side have been totally wiped out, no longer exist or the names have been changed.look at Wolynia/Volynhnia/Wolyn and Katyn. The Polish people in other areas lived side by side in peace with Germans, even married them, until Russia went on a Genocide rampage, changing borders and gave them no choice but to conform, escape or die. it was wrong what happened to the city and people hurt, but the Polish had no choice, they lost everything, lucky to stay alive, between the Germany and Russia during WWII."

Szymczak
Australia
Jul.30.2010
rates this page 3/5

"In my view, pretty much all of it was unjust. You can point fingers at each other all day long, in the end, virtually every nation that was involved in that horrific war did something unjust. Axis and Allied alike. The nazis committed some horrible deeds before and during the war. The soviets were nearly as bad. Then after the war, its victims exacted their revenge, including the poles and czechs upon the ethnic germans living withing their borders. There is plenty of blame to go around. Stop pointing the finger at each other and learn to live together in peace without lingering resentment and a "they deserved what they got" attitude. It has no place in todays world."

jiminlgb
United States
Jul.17.2010
rates this page 3/5

"For all of you who think that relocation of Germans from what is now western Poland was unjust, please consider what Germans had in store for Poles once they would win the war, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost . This was actually being implemented during the war and none other than Horst Köhler German ex president was born in one of the confiscated farms near Skierbieszów in Lublin region. I guess sometimes one rips what one sows."

Piotr
Poland
Jun.03.2010
rates this page 1/5

"You are welcome to Lerge. I completely understand what you say regarding european integration. Nationalities will always be important and will never disappear and it will take generations before people think of themselves as european as well as their individual nationalities. It will also take generations for people to put the past in the past. From the comments I see here, there still seem to be people that think the Germans, Poles, Russians etc all need to atone for the mis-deeds committed during and after WWII. Maybe that will happen and maybe not. We are now almost 100 years beyond WWI and that generation is almost all gone. The WWII generation will be gone in the next 30 years or so. WWII and Nazism will never be forgotten but its witnesses will be gone and so will those who believe the borders should be moved and realigned in order to re-claim a distant past. Yes, Pomerania was German for 1000 years, but it is Polish now and that is not likely to change. Its largest city, Szczecin (Stettin) is less than 100 miles from Berlin and it is entirely polish. No germans live there. It is up to all of us to accept the results of WWII. Longing for a past that was destroyed in a horrific war will not change the realities of today. Most of the border changes in the east were insisted upon by the Soviets. They wanted the German border moved as far west as they could get it. That way they could seize eastern Poland for themselves thereby shifting the entire polish nation geographically westward. The russians made the biggest land grab of all. I don't agree with it and the ethnic cleansing that followed but it is a reality that we must accept 65 years later. "

JIMINLGB
United States
May.20.2010
rates this page 4/5

""""Maybe what happened in Wroclaw is a good thing in some way? The Germans were evicted so they all stayed together as Germans in their country."" That is certainly a novel way of looking at it which would never have occurred to me. "...It wouldn't have occurred to all of the ethnic Germans that were trapped or left behind. "Verzicht ist Verrat.", Willy Brandt said. Well, Die ethnischen Deutschen in Polen und anderswohin wurden sicher verraten. There are more than 152,897 ethnic Germans in Poland...unofficially, of course. ;-) "

DerGermane
United States
May.17.2010
rates this page 3/5

"Stell dich nicht so blöd an, Karl! The truth hurts, I know. Denial isn't a river in Egypt. No one said that Germans weren't Nazis, but what is true, is that others joined the party.At least 350,000 non-German volunteers from around 16 occupied countries willingly served in Waffen SS combat units from 1940-1945. Enlistment rolls indicate more than 125,000 West Europeans volunteered of their own free will. 220,000 Eastern European also joined. The one-sided guilt trip will end as more is re-discovered. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_the_Axis_Powers_during_World_War_II"

Der Germane
United States
May.07.2010
rates this page 3/5

"Of course Nazism was not German, Germans were duped by eastern Europeans to bolive so along with the rest of the world. It was a ploy to force Germans into a war so Germany anihilates itself. "

Karl
Argentina
May.07.2010
rates this page 1/5

"Hallo allerseits! Ran across an interesting site that discusses the question of on-gong German guilt. Very insightful for those who deeply ponders such existential matters. In my view, Germany collectively has been the World's WWII "Sündenbock" for the last 65 years. For those less inclined, there has always been a difference between Germans (those holdinging German citizenship) and NAZI's (those hold party membership). NAZI's weren't only German, as is now being confirmed through the discovery and release of many data sources throughout the World...especially from Eastern Europe and Russia. No modern German should allow themselves to unjustly be stigmatized or harassed. Contrived xenophobic disrimination at it's worst. Ich bin stolz, ein Deutscher zu sein. --Jedem das Seine (Suum cuique)-- http://atlanticreview.org/archives/161-US-Fulbrighter-probes-the-question-of-on-going-German-guilt.html"

Der Germane
United States
May.06.2010
rates this page 3/5

"I intend visiting Wroclaw/Breslau this summer. I'm looking forward to my visit. It seems that the crimes of the Nazis have been expediently used for a land grab."

Gerry
Ireland
Apr.27.2010
rates this page 3/5

"The right of residency is not automatic in Europe and Poland has a right of "reserve" meaning that it can , and does , limit the ammount of Land Germans can buy and own in Poland. Pomerania was German for over 1000 years, 15 million people were forcibly removed from their lands in the most horrific conditions during peacetime and Poland has not one single monument to the "affair". Poland has profited from the expulsions and has no regrets about the dead. 3 Million people died, after the war was finished in Poland , simply for being German.Poland always plays the victim never the instigater but 3 million innocent people have been forgotten"

godstar
France
Apr.26.2010
rates this page 3/5

"The right of Germans to buy land in Poland is limited and in Polish law they are the only EU population that has limited rights. The right of EU citizens to residence in any other EU country is not an automatic right. The right to work is but not to reside, perhaps you need to re read the treaty. Germans have limited rights and restricted to the ammount of land they can own in Poland. Besides the ethnic cleansing of Germans from Germany is the largest ever peacetime ethnic cleansing, with the largest death toll in recent history. 3 Million dead (with an estimated 3 million ancillary deaths from the deportation) in the expulsions alone. A shame on Poland and on Europe."

Godstar
France
Apr.26.2010
rates this page 3/5

"Jiminlgb, I owe you a "Thank you" for your sympathetic comment to my previous post. Regarding the ability to live "anywhere in Europe" now: whilst this is true, I think that the individual nationalities still prefer to identify themselves as such, rather than being called "Europeans". Having lived in Britain for 40 years, I cannot detect the slightest wish to be European rather than British. The same applies to the other countries. Individual cultures and historical backgrounds are very diverse, each with its own 1.5 millennia of history. Nobody here wants to "blend" into being "European", however persistenly politicians promote such an agenda. To have a group of diverse nations committed to cooperation and peaceful coexistence is, to my mind, a far greater achievement and makes life within Europe far more interesting. That "past misdeeds" take much longer to heal has just been brought to our notice again through the air-tragedy in Poland, reminding us of the events at Katyn 70 years ago. I wrote to my Polish friends to extend our sympathy and at the same time to express my gladness that now at last, irrespective of our national differences, we can draw alongside each other across the borders. "

Lerge
United Kingdom
Apr.19.2010
rates this page 3/5

"TD makes a good point. Since joining the EU, Poles, Germans as well as all the other nationalities of the EU can live anywhere in the EU member countries. There are already many Germans living in Poland. Some were never expelled in the first place. I recently read that the ethnic German population in mid-silesia around the area of Brzeg or Opole is large enough that in some towns there is dual Polish/German signage. Also, in recent years some 6000 ethinc Germans from around the former Soviet Union have moved into the Kaliningrad Oblast of Russia (the russian portion of the former E. Prussia). As Europeans are now free to move about within the EU in the same manner that we can move from state to state here in the U.S., their societies will become more and more blended. Over time, their "nationality" will not matter so much as just being European. This will reduce the desire of a very few to re-align national borders in the name of correcting past mis-deeds. "

Jiminlgb
United States
Apr.14.2010
rates this page 3/5

"Q "The organisation of the Expellees have been nothing but humble in their actions and have asked for little, a full right to return and to buy Land and houses in their (old) homeland with the same rights as Poles would be a good start. A policy of right to return should be intitated and the healing , and forgiveness on both sides can begin" Q Dear Godstar, I am sure there were problems in the past but since 2004 they can do exactly that. That is what the European Union and it's law is here for. I live in Wroclaw now but plan to move to Portugal for my retirement. In the next building there is a Danish family who have moved here in 2001 and an Austrian bought a flat not far from my own 3-4 years ago as he moved here after getting a job in Poland. They can vote in local elections as any other Polish citizen. And so can Poles who live in the other 26 countries in the EU. We cross borders without passports, live, buy land and work legally in other EU countries."

TD
Poland
Apr.01.2010
rates this page 4/5

"The annexation of German lands after the war and the continual occupation by Poland , with little or no regard to the history of these regions or the suffering of the people involved is a stain on Poland and an insult to the descendants.The lands annexed to the east of Poland (the Curzon line or the Kresy) were not occupied on the whole by Poles but by Ukranians. There were many cities like Lwow that did have majority Polish populations, the country being majority non Polish, and the fact that they were pushed West wards was wrong but in no way does 2 wrongs make a right. The expulsions and the aradour to remove all traces of German influence , and the rewriting of history to name these areas as part of the Piast lands is a shame that was born out of communist ideology to encourage settlement in the Prussian lands. I feel sorry for the way in which the expellees were and still are treated to this day. it is remarkable that some of the contributors have had pleasant experiences in their return visits but I feel that there is still a great reluctance in Poland to accept their part in the largest ethnic cleansing campaign in peacetime. Over 15 million ethnic Germans were removed with an estimated 3 million dying prior to arriving in the New Germany; with many more dying upon arrival from disease and starvation. The organisation of the Expellees have been nothing but humble in their actions and have asked for little, a full right to return and to buy Land and houses in their (old) homeland with the same rights as Poles would be a good start. A policy of right to return should be intitated and the healing , and forgiveness on both sides can begin"

Godstar
France
Mar.31.2010
rates this page 3/5

""...ya no es violencia lo que hacemos...sino que la "justicia" impulsa sencillamente a conducirse brutalmente. De esta "justicia" surge constantemente la nueva y espantosa INJUSTICIA para los hombres que pierden su patria y su propiedad en nombre de la supuesta "justicia". Tomado de "Ideas sobre el este aleman" por Walter v. Molo."

Juan Carlos Cardozo Puentes
Colombia
Mar.14.2010
rates this page 3/5

"I am one of those still remember the suffering of the period between 1937 and today. Therefore I feel with the people around the world facing comparable fate. Especially the people of Palistina."

mreiner60
United States
Mar.10.2010
rates this page 4/5

"To Lerge in the U.K. I cannot imagine what it must be like for you to visit your former homeland considering the circumstances that you left under. We Americans tend to be very egotistical and full of ourselves. The U.S. has never lost territory to another nation and had its citizens forcably expelled. I was born in metro Los Angeles, as was my mother and grandparents. At least one branch of my family has been in So California for nearly 100 years. Although I now live in Seattle WA, I take comfort in the fact that I can still visit the places where I lived and went to school as well as visit family that still lives there. If the same thing had happened to me, as has happened to you, I am not sure I could ever go back. I admire your strength for being able to go back to re-visit a place that would have too many painful memories for me. It is also admirable that the Polish citizens that now live in Wroklaw/Breslau and the rest of Silesia and Pomerania are able to put aside the past and treat you and other former residents with courtesey and respect. Others in this crazy world we live in should take note. "

Jiminlgb
United States
Mar.06.2010
rates this page 3/5

"Having now read so much of history, back even to the French-Prussian War in 1870/71, I comment as one who has returned to Silesia a number of times to revisit the places of my ancestors and my roots. In Breslau, I was invited into the house, and room, were I was born. Further north on the banks of the Oder I was allowed to visit my grandparents home. I had tea in my grandmother's former kitchen, and in the garden remembered the snowman we made. I inspected the now delapidated house built by my great-great-grandfather as the poshest hotel in town and across the square was able to decipher the almost illegible gravestone of my great-great-great-grandfather. I stood in the ruins of the church where my grandparents were married and where a gravestone of even further ancestors remains. In every place I found helpful, friendly, and considerate people. And some have become true friends. Nevertheless, my sense of loss is as acute as ever and increases with every visit. And my early childhood memories of expulsion, fear, flight, and deprivation have not dimmed. My generation, although German, needs to be allowed to grieve. What are mere facts of history to some are still acutely painful facts to those who had to endure them. "

Lerge
United Kingdom
Mar.06.2010
rates this page 3/5

"To respond to what Bronxite says about my previous post. Let me clarify. First, the treaty that defined the U.S./Canadian border was a negotiated treaty, not imposed, and the U.S. was never required to give up territory already recognized as part of the U.S. Apples to oranges on that one. The treaty of Versailles was not the only thing that contributed to WWII but it was one of the principle things. For one thing, yes the French did seethe with anger after the Franco-Prussian war of 1871 and their desire for revenge over the loss of Alsace (the land of my ancestors) and part of Lorraine helped fuel their desire to arrange military alliances againsed Germany (the tirple entante). The Versailles treaty also required Germany to give up territory to nations than did not even participate in the conflict (Netherlands, Denmark)stripped her of all overseas posessions, and required Germany to accept all responsibility for a war that all of the major european powers at the time had a hand in starting. The hyperinflation was caused by the reparations payments because they were so high that the only way to pay them on schedule was to print more money. And when Germany didn't in the 1920s, the French occupied the Ruhr. The Mark became worthless. Germany was also required to give away its natural resources as well, such as coal from the Saar valley, to France and Italy. Driving up the price of these commodities at home. Their navy was locked up in Scapa Flow Scotland and their army was reduced to only 100,000. Not even enough to defend the country when Lithuania siezed the Memel area in 1920. All of this was seen as a humiliation by the German people. The nazis tapped into this and took advantage of it. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to justify the rise of the nazis and I believe that the German people should have seen what Hitler was doing and stopped him. I am just saying that the Versailles treaty opened the door and the nazis simply walked through it. "

Jiminlgb
United States
Mar.04.2010
rates this page 3/5

""United States" makes a good point that countries have been grabbing each other's land for centuries. It also must have been pretty cruddy for him to have to deal as a child with his classmates giving him Nazi salutes. But his idea of "just moving on" throws away valuable material from which we can learn an enormous amount. Take his narrative that the Treaty of Versailles led Germans to seethe in anger and provoked WWII. When the French paid Germany an enormous indemnity as the losers of the Franco-Prussian War, did they "seethe in anger" as a result which led to WWI? Americans elected Polk in 1844 with the slogan of 54 40 or fight (meaning that the US was entitled to British Columbia and Alberta and if it didn't get it, it should fight Great Britain). But when a treaty a few years later continued the border from Minnesota to the Pacific, did Americans "seethe in anger". Did the reparations cause the hyperinflaction of 1923, or was it the printing press? All I'm suggesting is that the standard narrative, "Treaty of Versailles leads to WWII" has lots of flaws in it as well as some validity. Why should we care at this point? Because we want to answer the underlying question of why someone will fight and die in one generation for something that his counterpart a generation or two later would find daft. How do societies fixate on their priorities? Why are "historic" German lands in the east not an issue for Germany but "historic" Kosovo is certainly an issue for Serbia even though few Serbs live in Kosovo. Why is moving to pre-67 Israel (as against the West Bank or Gaza) a priority for Palastinian refugees in Lebanon who have never even been to either Israel, the West Bank or Gaza? Part of it is that we're conditioned to accept narratives as truth when, in fact, they're only narratives. That's what makes this area a goldmine of information."

bronxite10
United States
Mar.03.2010
rates this page 3/5

"I have read all the previous comments and found it amazing at how much bias still exists some 60 odd years after WWII. Yes, the nazi's committed horrible attrocities during the war and yes, the russians, poles, czechs etc. all exacted their revenge. It is a part of history that neither side should forget less they might repeat it in the future. Did the soviets have the right to annex nearly 1/3 of poland? Did the poles have the right to almost 25% of Germany? That is a question that may never be answered but the reality is that the current borders in place today have been agreed upon by all the nations involved and germans and poles alike no longer inhabit their former eastern lands. Moving the borders now would be rediculous. Lets not forget that the borders in europe have been shifting for centuries. Some here talk of the Germans "siezing" polish territory during the middle ages but fail to mention that the poles also conquered territory in their past. In the 16th century poland was the 2nd largest country in europe after russia and encompassed all of what is now poland, lithuania, latvia, belarus and western ukrane including kiev. Europeans have been siezing each others territory for centuries. The ottomans of turkey conquered all of southeast europe up to the gates of Vienna and Napoleon marched his troops all the way to Moscow in an attempt to conquer the entire continent. Stop trying to proclaim innocence while pointing the finger of guilt at each other and just learn to live together in peace. As for the rise of the nazis, you can thank the treaty of versailles for that. No single thing did as much to create the perfect conditions for the rise of nazism than a treaty that did more to punish than to create a lasting peace. I don't know of anyone, especially us arrogant americans, that would not seethe with anger at seeing their country cut in two and carved up like a pie, and then told that they will be making war reparations that they could not afford until 1988!! (originally, modified later). It wrecked the economy and created run-away inflation and fostered an anger and resentment that the nazis gleefuly took advantage of. I am of german ancestry and know full well that germans will never live down their nazi past (I got the nazi salute in school as a child when others learned of my german heritage). Likewise, the russians probably wont live down their soviet past either. Three things regarding history. Acknowledge, accept, move on. The war is over. "

United States
Mar.03.2010
rates this page 4/5

"JC, the war was certainly needless. There was no need for German racism, German militarism or the Nazi belief that life is a ruthless struggle in which the strong dominate (and should dominate) the weak. That was what "ordinary" Germans bought into, including many Germans in Breslau. Your grandfather may have been a Social Democrat in 1939, may have felt in 1939 that the destruction of Warsaw was barbaric, and may have brought up your mother's brother to reject the principles of the Hitler youth, but the odds are against it. War is horrible and randomly produces vicitms on a massive scale. The English and French learned that after WWI and did everything they could to avoid its repetition. Had Germans learned that lesson, too, there would have been no WWII. But it took the flight of your mother as a child in sub-zero weather, the death of her brother, the loss of their possessions, and that experience repeated many times over in Germany, 1945 so that ordinary people would separate themselve in their "zero hour" from the social building blocks of Nazism. That Germans did so successfully is a tribute to them and to humanity. That that's what it took to get them to do so illuminates horrible flaws in human nature. The question that it leaves is how to get people to reject blatent lies and massive moral ugliness without having to have your mother chased from her home in sub-zero weather."

bronxite10
United States
Feb.28.2010
rates this page 3/5

"Don't usually comment on these things but felt I had to on this one. I just wonder how many of the people commenting have any connection to Breslau, from the sounds of it not many. Its still a very emotive subject for those of us whose families had to leave the city. My mother as a young girl walked out of the city with her mother in sub-zero temperatures, in January 1945, which killed many of the refugees. Her brother was killed and father badly injured in the seige, they lost everything but the clothes on their back and the few possessions they could carry. She wasn't to see her homeland for another 50 years (her mother never returned. When we paid a long awaited visit a few years ago we were devastated to find that all traces of its German past had been erased, even down to the graves in the Cathedral. My mother will never return its too painful for her. It is for her and the millions of refugees from the east that I am writing this, and urge you all to remember these were just ordinary people, like you, whose lives were devastated, they were also victims of this needless war."

JC
United Kingdom
Feb.24.2010
rates this page 3/5

"Lerge, Wikipedia had the following on the Sudetenland: "On 4 December 1938 there were elections in Reichsgau Sudetenland, in which 97.32% of the adult population voted for NSDAP. About a half million Sudeten Germans joined the Nazi Party which was 17.34% of the German population in Sudetenland (the average NSDAP participation in Nazi Germany was 7.85%). This means the Sudetenland was the most "pro-Nazi" region in the Third Reich." As a result of the Munich agreement, the Germans required the expulsion of all Czechs from the Sudetenland. Do you really think that after WWII, Czechs should still have been required to have Sudeten Germans as their countrymen? Germans in Danzig before WWII largely endorsed Nazi rule and incorporation into the Reich even though they were under the jurisdiction of the League of Nations. They controlled the mouth of the Vistula. Should the Poles nevertheless have accepted that continued control after WWII? The Inter-War Polish corridor was largely ethnically Polish, but Germany had no problem incorporating it into the Reich when they had the power to do so. Should Poles have put themselves at the end of WWII in the position where they had to risk that again? The current German-Polish border is much shorter and much more defensible than the pre-WWII Polish-German border. Were Polish interests in a defensible border after WWII of no importance compared to the German interest in maintaining themselves in their eastern lands? German eastern lands included the large Junker estates. Were Polish interest in their eradication misplaced? The Treaty of Versailles went out of its way to draw boundaries that made the fewest members of one nationality citizens of another nation. Nevertheless, the boundaries left Germans and Hungarians in Czechoslovakia, Poles in Germany, Hungarians in Romania, and so on. It was the source of many fascist demands in the Inter-War period. Should the victors of WWII have given it another try nevertheless? The Polish Jews who survived the Nazis did not want to go back to Poland in which their homes and families had been destroyed and which was wracked with anti-semitic riots after WWII. They were desparate to go to Palastine. Should they have been forced to go back to Poland nevertheless? Did the settlements after WWII do perfect justice to each individual? No, of course not. But consider that after WWI, a second world war in Europe did not seem unthinkable. After the settlement of WWII, a third Europeon war seems pretty far fetched. After WWI, Germany was a feeble democracy, despised by many Germans on the right and the left. Today, Germany is a healthy democracy with strong popular support, and German militarism is dead. Today, Europeon integration is alive and well (if moving in fits and starts). After WWI, there was no Europeon integration to speak of. Europe is far, far better off today than it was after WWI. Perhaps if you had a magic wand and could change the post WWII settlement, you could have done a lot better. But don't be too sure. There's something to be said for a settlement that produced a Europe today that would have been as a far fetched utopian fantasy in 1936."

bronxite10
United States
Feb.16.2010
rates this page 3/5

"""...Germans viewed themselves as victims in 1945 without regard to the havoc they wrecked on....." The definition of "victim" may be helpful here: A VICTIM IS: 1)someone who is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent 2) someone who is injured, destroyed, or sacrificed 3) someone who is subjected to oppression, hardship, mistreatment, or torture." If for "SOMEONE" you put "persons", then ALL those persons are victims who are subjected to any of the above treatment, no matter what nationality they may have. Nor does it matter what the EXCUSES for such treatments are! The ONLY EXCEPTION LEGALLY RECOGNIZED IS THE ACTION ON THE BATTLEFIELD ITSELF: the actual engagement of ARMIES. It follows therefore, that,indeed, innumerable civilians were victims of Nazi Germany, and few, if any, Germans would deny this. Equally, millions of German civilians, in their homes, on the road, and on the flight, became VICTIMS of actions of revenge. No non-German should deny this either. "

Lerge
United Kingdom
Feb.14.2010
rates this page 3/5

"That's right, Der Germaine. I'm progressive and liberal and from New York. And I read a lot. Right now, I'm in the middle of Richard Bessel's Germany 1945 in which he notes that many Germans viewed themselves as victims in 1945 without regard to the havoc they wrecked on Europe during the preceding five years or so. Perhaps that syndrome is familiar to you? Sorry if you think that amounts to a lack of critical thinking, but I call it like I see it. "

United States
Feb.07.2010
rates this page 3/5

"bronxite10--seemingly of New York-- is regurgitating U.S. Progressive talking points, and demonstrating that critical thinking is not allowed in Progressivism. No surprise, New York is terribly progressive. Despite the clever name, Progressives are not progressive at all. One must read as many history sources as possible to gain true perspective, not just that of "The Victors". Thinking is a free man's game, apparently not allowed in Progressivism, Marxism, Fascism, or Communism. "

Der Germane
United States
Feb.07.2010
rates this page 3/5

"This site is much more interesting than watching U.S. Civil War re-enacters. The re-enacters live a few 150 year old battles whereas this site relives ethnic and political battles of a 1000 years. The comments suffer from the basic historical fallacy of locating historical wrongs with governments and victimhood with individuals. It's never that simple. About 43% of Breslau voted in 1932 for Hitler and his policy of anti-semitisim and the need for Germans to expand eastward for "living space". It's hard to call them innocent in the loss of their homes. What they wished for others was done to them although the intensity of what was done to them never reached the gas chamber level. What about the many in the 57% who voted for Hindenberg but who later cheered the annexation of Austria and the Sudetenland? What of the ones who were ecstatic over the fall of France in 1940? Sure by June, 1945 they all wanted to forget their recent past like a bad dream and just move on with their lives as if nothing had happened, but that hardly made them blameless victims. On the other hand, what of Breslau's Social Democrats who did not dare emerge until after Hitler was dead. Their fate was the same as those who trusted "Der Fuhrer" without reservation as late as January, 1945. And what about the 12 year old girl raped by a Soviet soldier as she cried for her mother. Don't think that that didn't happen as well. There is some rough justice in German loss of their eastern, Junker-ridden, Prussian militarist producing lands. It's hard to blame the Czechs for driving out the Sudeten Germans or the Poles from annexing Silesia. The massive ethnic cleansing that accompanied the end of WWII produced many a horror story. But it was the facsist hypernationalism and racisim that made the polyglot populations of central Europe so unstable in the inter-war period, and Germany was in the forefront of that movement. History sweeps on making victims of guilty and innocent alike and sometimes benefiting those who don't deserve it at all. The purity of any national historical myth is usually based in a lot of denial and forgetting. Rather than repeat national myths like fairy tails and defend their narratives when attacked, doesn't it make more sense to understand things as they were and use the lessons to make the world better? Look at the way many Germans have drawn on the horrors of the German past to become liberal, broad minded and pacific. Many are what Beethoven could only dream of when he wrote the last movement of his 9th symphony. One wishes that many in the U.S. South could deal with their heritage of slavery and succession as honestly. They hide from the fact that Southern seccesion before the U.S. Civil War was based in the defense of a slave society. They equate their narcisstic view - the attitude is I can do anything I damn well please and I don't owe anything to anyone - with liberty, and they lie whenever it is convenient e.g. the South fought a just war for local control, Obama is a socialist, Obama's healthcare would give everyone poor care, there's no global warming, suspect most foreigners, and the only thing the central government is good for is the creation of a strong military. Anyone else see an echo of Euoropean fascist hyper-nationalism from the interwar period? How about Hamas? Palastine was always Arab and Muslim. Jews have no place there. Palastine should be an Islamic state from the Jordan to the sea. It's a fine thing to kill Israeli civilians because they're Jews, their fathers were Jews and their grandfathers were Jews, and besides, there are no Israeli civilians. Suicide bombers are glorious and rockets fired against Sdorot are just fine. The fascist impulse is riding high and is Gaza's national policy. What about the fringe settlers on the West Bank who don't see Palastinains with their own claims on the land and who write myophic religious commentaries about how they should exact a "price tag" from Palastinian civilians in response for the Israeli government's call for a freeze on settlement construction. Once again, the fascist impulse. It's better to understand the past, although it can be difficult and quite unflattering, then to lap up the pap of sanitized historical myth. Only then can anyone ask the question of how to get a two state solution in the Middle East free of the fascist impulse whether it is in Hamas national policy or in the settler movement on the West Bank. Only then can you get national health care in the U.S. free of the fascist impulse of the old Confederacy of the South, and only then can anyone get a place in the chorus of the last movement of Beethoven's 9th. "

bronxite10
United States
Feb.07.2010
rates this page 3/5

"""Maybe what happened in Wroclaw is a good thing in some way? The Germans were evicted so they all stayed together as Germans in their country."" That is certainly a novel way of looking at it which would never have occurred to me. "

Lerge
United Kingdom
Feb.01.2010
rates this page 3/5

"You forgot to mention that in the 1400's Wroclaw was actually a part of Hungary as well. Under King Matthias Corvinus and was known as Boroszlo. Poles and Hungarians have always been good neighbors and friends though. Wroclaw is a beautiful city, have been many times and yes there are ghosts of the past but that's history. Hungary was also chopped up into 7 countries and a majority of their population given to foreign countries. Maybe what happened in Wroclaw is a good thing in some way? The Germans were evicted so they all stayed together as Germans in their country. In Hungary's case there are millions living outside their borders and being treated like crap by their new masters. I am sure that more than a few Germans managed to remain in Wroclaw, but the fact that these events are acknowledged means it will never be forgotten."

David Wayne
United States
Jan.30.2010
rates this page 4/5

"My mother was born in Breslau in 1936 and fled to the west when the Russians advandced. Like a lot of people from that region she and her family initialy fled to Dresden where she was caught in this major RAF bombardment where thousands of innocent civilian refugees lost their lives. The fact that the city of Dresden was full of refugees was well known before the RAF decided to attack. Don't get me wrong, the nazi's were to be conquered because they were evil but this attack on Dresden was not needed considering the fact that the war was nearly finished. Luckilly my mom survived and married a dutch bloke after the war and presto: I'm here!!"

Mark de Jonge
Netherlands
Jan.23.2010
rates this page 3/5

""Weren't the British, USA and Soviet governments which took that decision and are responsible for that terrible injustice inflicted on 12 million innocent Germans?" Da! The Potsdam Treaty made it possible for the inappropriate land grabs. The USSR is most to blame for this. The execution, however, was carried out on the ground by Poles, Czechs, Russians, Hungarians, Romanians, Yugolsavs, etc. The post-war reactionary atrocities against the non-military German population were just as wrong as the war-time atrocities committed by the Axis powers against the Eastern European populations. Polish and Czech/ Slovak war crimes are just coming to light after 65 years. The Soviet Union falsely educated their populations. Now, with relative freedom, these countries are able to research works outside of Soviet influence. It must be difficult for those countries to learn of, and admit, their complicity. "

Der Germane
United States
Jan.05.2010
rates this page 3/5

"What are you trying to say Theodore? That we need another war to give Germans their lost land? Which was actually grabbed by them from Poles and other Western Slavs on some point... Weren't the British, USA and Soviet governments which took that decision and are responsible for that terrible injustice inflicted on 12 million innocent Germans? You are not British are you? German you are, aren't you? You can stop dreaming about your lost realms from now on, matey..."

Moritz
United Kingdom
Dec.21.2009
rates this page 3/5

"""http://healthandenergy.com - "Deadly Diesel Fumes" Published Feb. 24, 2005 "The deadly effects of breathing diesel fumes came into sharp focus this week when the Clean Air Task Force (CATF) released a report[1] estimating that diesel fumes kill about 21,000 U.S. citizens each year."" A mere myth, Mr. Brown?? "

United States
Dec.20.2009
rates this page 2/5

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:West_slavs_9th-10th_c..png this map show everything about slavic settlement and mixed population slavs-germans in this area. Germans have many polish blood it is true that germans owned slavs and also got their genes"

geneofil
Albania
Dec.18.2009
rates this page 3/5

"ref Dita 'diesel engine exhausts' diesel engine exhaust ARE NOT POISONOUS. they stink and are unpleasant but cannot kill you. You are repeating a bogus claim you have heard somewhere else!"

jeff brown
United States
Dec.18.2009
rates this page 3/5

"my ancient greek ancestors as in almost everything else were spot on.to the victor the spoils...and history is written by the victors....and woe to the vanquised... the bottom line is that what now is called western poland is german lands as they have been for over 1000 years.the original german population has been ethnically cleansed,raped and robbed from their land,homes,cities and villages even their cemeteries have been wiped out. so spare us the pathetic excuses and justifications for legalising one of the biggest crimes in european history against over 12.000.000 people.there is no excuse or justification.Breslau will always be breslau NOT wroclaw,so will Danzig..Stettin..Posen..Konigsberg.. Allenstein etc...etc... "

theodore grapsas
United Kingdom
Dec.16.2009
rates this page 3/5

"""Let's forget.." NO! But it must also be remembered that the German people were the first victims of the Nazi regime as follows: ""After the 1932 election, it became clear to the Nazi leadership that they would never be able to secure a majority of votes and that they would have to rely on other means to gain power. In addition to an increased use of violence, aimed at disrupting and intimidating their opponents, the Nazis set up concentration centres, where the regime used to lock up the "undesirable elements" of society, and the elderly, mentally ill, and handicapped were often confined in makeshift camps where they were starved or gassed to death with diesel engine exhaust. The Final Solution was therefore initially tested on German citizens...."" Nor must it be forgotten that tens of thousands of those murdered and now collectively referred to as "Jews" were German,too. Atrocities on all sides must be remembered if the Nazi spirit is to be extinguished once for all. "

Dita
United Kingdom
Dec.04.2009
rates this page 3/5

"Countries that have suffered under the Nazi Jackboot: Lets just all forget about the unfortunate incidents such as Auschwitz, Dachau etc, lets just forget about the systematic annihilation of Warsaw, lets just forget about the SS Einsatzgruppen in Russia with continual massacre of non-combatants, lets just forget about 1.5 million Poles and 6 million Jews eliminated in death camps, lets just forget about the systematic annihilation of all peoples not fitting into the Nazi Aryan ideal, we can just kiss and make up!!!!!!!! xxxxxx"

Vince
Australia
Nov.29.2009
rates this page 1/5

""Two wrongs don't make a right"...it is a logical fallacy that has been used by nearly everyone in attempt to clear people conscious about the killing of INNOCENT German civilians in Schlesien and elsewhere in German Prussia. What a pitifully, sad low-brow argument to justify revenge-murder on inculpable non-combatants. The height of grenzenlose Dummheit. "

Der Germane
United States
Nov.27.2009
rates this page 3/5

" heil the german empire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

poultry
United States
Nov.25.2009
rates this page 3/5

"My Jewish uncle who fled to Britain before the war and lost his mother on the way to Auschwitz used to say: "The perpetrator of atrocities has no excuse. No, not even the excuse of taking revenge" - That settles it. "

Dita
United Kingdom
Nov.21.2009
rates this page 3/5

"The injustice the Germans of Wroclaw experienced is a consequence of the Nazi invasion of Poland and the Germans losing the second world war. There suffering is a mere pin prick compared to the systematic destruction of Poland dealt out by the Nazis, who were hell bent in not just invading and occupying Poland, but eliminating it from existence by the targeting of its intelligentsia. Furthermore, with the Molotov Ribbentrop pact, they were complicit with the Soviet Union in the attempted obliteration of Poland from existence. By losing the war, they reaped what they sowed, and Poland lives on! This article tries to highlight and emphasize the wrongs done to the Germans, but ignores the much greater and numerous wrongs they committed. The real villains in this border playing of Europe are Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, not Poland. "

Vince
Australia
Nov.19.2009
rates this page 2/5

"The previous primitive contribution seems to have shocked everybody into silence. What a shame. Can such offensive nonsense not be erased? "

Lerg
United Kingdom
Nov.17.2009
rates this page 3/5

"breslau is only good for nazi zombies der rise haha"

that nigga that fucked your mom
United States
Oct.07.2009
rates this page 1/5

"Der Germane, can't thank you enough for your information !!!!! My father has no records, he escaped in 1939....still this is a wonderful start to my quest..."

United States
Oct.01.2009
rates this page 4/5

"Mindy: Here is a Jewish website that may provide some clues. http://www.jewish-guide.pl/sites/31 and here too: http://jewishgen.blogspot.com/2009/08/poland-marks-65th-lodz-ghetto.html Łódź in German is Lodz or Lodsch. Between 1940–1945 it was called Litzmannstadt. As for Breslau, this website has some good info. Also here:http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~polwgw/polandgen.html Perhaps you father has records. If he was in the Army, for those born before 1890 are stored at Bundesarchiv - Milit"ararchiv Wiesentalstrasse 10 79115 Freiburg/Breisgau Read more: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/genealogy/german-faq/part3/section-1.html#ixzz0SYM7srKC Viel Glück! "

Der Germane
United States
Sep.29.2009
rates this page 3/5

"deseperating seeking information pertaining to my fathers family who lived in Breslau till 1939. German Jews in the linen business. I was told my grandfather was in the German Army pre Hitler. If there is anyone who can help reference me to search my familys past please leet me know. My father now has alzhemiers, and would never talk about it when he could. Nor would my Mom who left Poland in 1921, though many of her family didn't and were also killed. They were from Ludz. Any information for this soul searcher would be wonderful and I thank you in advance."

Mindy
United States
Sep.29.2009
rates this page 3/5

"The truth is that the Soviets should not have been allowed to play with the borders of eastern Europe. The border changes imposed on the defeated Germany, and the consequent expulsions of populations, should be considered a crime against humanity. Some 2 million people died in the expulsions, which were carried out in the most brutal way possible. A disgrace and an example of vicious revenge once a war had already ended."

Mark LV
United Kingdom
Sep.20.2009
rates this page 3/5

"Fuehrer.... "Nonsense""

Lerge
United States
Sep.10.2009
rates this page 3/5

"Stephen, it is always nice to see how generous germanophiles are especially with what does not belong to them. Humor me please and explain just how would you communicate your brilliant ideas to the governments of Lithuania, Belorussia, and Ukraine? Instead for starters I rather see Germany returning all art and national treasures stolen by Prussia/Germany form Poland in the last 300 years. How about that Stephen?"

Der Fuehrermuseum
United States
Sep.05.2009
rates this page 1/5

"Trying to stir some trouble brian? Why won't you go to Ibiza instead? Or Greece? You can dress yourself as a nun they will arrest you a bit faster..."

Helzie
United Kingdom
Aug.30.2009
rates this page 1/5

"Trying to stir some trouble brian? Why won't you go to Ibiza instead? Or Greece? You can dress yourself as a nun they will arrest you a bit faster..."

Helzie
United Kingdom
Aug.30.2009
rates this page 1/5

"I shall be visiting BRESLAU shortly and postcards will be sent from the occupied GERMAN CITY of BRESLAU"

brian
United Kingdom
Aug.29.2009
rates this page 2/5

"Well said, Stephen. Thanks for the lucid clarity."

Der Germane
United States
Aug.10.2009
rates this page 3/5

"There is a need for justice on both sides--Justice for the Eastern Germans and Eastern Poles-the restoration of the property and territory to Germany and Poland which was stolen by the USSR due to FDR going to bed with Stalin. Coming from a mixed family (Eastern German and Polish), I have not let the standard bias to cloud my judgment--nor do I fall for the lies of Pan-Europeanism, the new Pan-Slavism. Breslau is indeed a German city under foreign occupation, as are Stettin, Kattowitz, Thorn, Allenstein and Opplen, however Lwow, Wilno, Grodno, Luck, Ternopil, and Brzesc are all Polish cities in the same circumstances. In 1939, on the eve of war, there were roughly 8,000,000 Germans living in the 'Eastern Provinces' within the borders of interwar Germany along with 1,000,000 pro-German Poles (Masurians and the ethnically mixed 'Silesians') and an additional 1,000,000 in Poland and 400,000 in Danzig. There were also 1,000,000 Germans in Northern East Prussia and 100,000 in the Memelland and Lithuania proper combined for a total of 10,500,000, 11,500,000 counting the pro-German element. At the same time, between the Curzon Line and Riga Line, there were 4,000,000 Poles, along with 1,100,000 in the pre-war borders of the USSR and 150,000 in Lithuania (minus Wilno), Latvia, Bessarabia and North Bukovina combined. This subtotal of 5,250,000 Poles outside the borders of post-war Poland does not include pro-Polish Ukrainians and Belorussians, both east and west of the Curzon Line, most likely 500,000 in number bringing the total to 5,750,000. Granted, there were some Ukrainians and Belorussians west of the Curzon Line, however you still had 5,000,000 surplus Poles and pro-Poles, and that is not counting the 1,250,000 Jews who identified themselves as Poles. Obviously Stalin's Land Grab of 69,859 mi, 180,934 km with 12,000,000 inhabitants as of 1939 was un-justified, as using the Soviet and other Poles in exchanges, the Polish and pro-Polish element would have been over 50% of the total. What is needed...is the restoration of the whole of Prussian Silesia (including Upper Silesia/Kattowitz but not Cieszyn--a part of Galicia more than Silesia), the Neumark and 'Berlin Buffer' region, the whole of Pomerania and the whole of East Prussia as well as the Kulmerland. Danzig and the Pila region being forever lost due to Hitler. Poland on the other hand needs to regain all territories east to the Riga Line save the eastern half of Polesia and Volhynia where virtually no Poles lived--not to mention the land was swampy and generally un-productive save around Rowne. See my comments here under 'response': http://nccg.org/preussen/preussen8.html"

Stephen
United States
Aug.07.2009
rates this page 4/5

"PEACE: "These communications are shameful." What is shameful is suggesting that communication about the past is frivolous and unnecessary! Utopia is a fantasy. Singing Kumbaya doesn't heal all wounds. "The only truth revealed by all of your ramblings is that man has learned NOTHING from history." Really? Ignorance knows no bounds, race, or creed. Your statement is proof of that. People's ideas and attitudes have come along way. If there was no evidence of learning, don't you think all of the past prejudices would be much greater? Deadlier? The E.U. would not exist at all. "What purpose do your conversations serve other than to further divide one another? " Not division, rather understanding and acceptance. We are discussing history, afterall, and challenging each others notions and perceptions. George Santayana said that "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." If we don't discover the truth, we will be doomed to repeat parts of it. Frank, candid discussion is required, thusly, and takes lots of moral courage. You seem to have none."

Hrothgar
Denmark
Jul.15.2009
rates this page 3/5

"i am of mixed east german/russian ancestry and any who has prejudice to the germans because of ww2 has to rethink a little, that was only hitler and his nazi goons not the german people as a whole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

poultry
United States
Jul.13.2009
rates this page 2/5

"i am of mixed east german/russian ancestry and any who has prejudice to the germans because of ww2 has to rethink a little, that was only hitler and his nazi goons not the german people as a whole"

poultry
United States
Jul.13.2009
rates this page 2/5

"I think europe should just forget everything and go back to the maps of 1914!"

poultry
United States
Jul.13.2009
rates this page 2/5

"These communications are shameful. What does it matter who slaughtered whom and when and under the name of which God? The reality is man's in humanity to man, woman, and child in the name of creed, country, religion, race or some other nonsensical category are just thin-veiled excuses for people driven by greed, selfishness or other such nonsense to justify taking what is not rightfully theirs. The only truth revealed by all of your ramblings is that man has learned NOTHING from history. Man will continue to destroy one another. Shame on you, grown men dribbling on and on about events which primarily occurred before you even existed. Find me one house that Death has not visited. Find me a people who have not been enslaved, abused, or conquered by another people. This is life. It is not fair. It is not easy. It is not just. What purpose do your conversations serve other than to further divide one another? "

Peace!
United States
Jul.10.2009
rates this page 3/5

"NO, Denamrk did not experience the same things as Poland. Germany respected Denmark's political independence, if Denmark did not resist the occupation. King Christian and the government initially chose co-operation instead of resistance. I seek only balance and the truth. The point here is that conduct unbecoming is found in every society. It is only now, 64 years after World War II, that new information is being brought to light. There are indisputable truths that have been,and will be, revealed. For the Poles, Jedwabne is just the beginning. The forum is apropos given the website, no? "Livet kan kun forstås baglæns, men det skal leves fremad." - Søren Kierkegaard "

Hrothgar
Denmark
Jul.09.2009
rates this page 3/5

"Goddag Oh, I could give you more uggliness in Polish history i.e. Lambinowice camp or szmalcownicy blackmailers to start with but what is it going to prove? My point is to show the proper perspective of all above events - terrorised people having undured unimaginable terror from two different oppressors, sometimes in the same time. Denmark was occupied by Nazis, Danish people suffered badly but I have still an impression that you can't really comprehend the seriousness of situation people in Poland were living in during WWII. It's not for us to judge anyone who commited a crime, compromise their beliefs, collaborated or not during this time. Simple like that... Thank you for your recommendation, I will read it and hope it's better that Neigbors itself as i found it very unreliable - Gross stated himself in one of his interviews that Jewish interpretation of facts (i believe he meant himself) should be free of examination due to a scale of suffering Jewish nation endured. Very interesting approach. You seem to believe we don't know what our history is like - Oh we are all very much aware what we did and what we didn't. We are not angels and we don't pretend to be. About playing victim card... Well, 6000000 dead is not enough for you? Soviet and Nazi terror in the same time? Look at our neighbours - 11 million killed by Germans, 70 million by Soviets. And us in between. By the way we couldn't find a better place for that sort of historical argument, could we? "

Moryc Beniowski
United States
Jul.09.2009
rates this page 3/5

"Moryc Beniowski: recommended reading- "The Neighbors Respond" By Antony Polonsky & Joanna B. Michlic. It is a balanced book with sections authored by people on all sides of the Jedwabne issue. Cześć."

Hrothgar
Denmark
Jul.08.2009
rates this page 3/5

"Moryc Bienowski...you are incorrect about your facts. "...But SS was involved and it's pretty obvious that that was 'us or them' situation. Those Poles responsible were forced to do that and I am pretty sure if you had to commit a similar thing to save your family you wouldn't think twice..." This has already been proven to be untrue. Again, Polish history is full of denial. Poles always seem to play the victim card. How dare anyone tell the truth about what happened! That's why Poland passed a law making it a crime to state that Poland had any complicity with the Communists or the Nazi's. Scape-goating the Nazi's is/was convenient, but it is a lie. The people of Jedwabne have finally come to terms with the truth. They are still trying to live it down. One can look into any countries history and find ugliness. Even, in Polish history. There is plenty of evidence about Jedwabne contrary to your beliefs. Look them up if you are curious to know the real story. "

Hrothgar
Denmark
Jul.08.2009
rates this page 3/5

"No one denies that Jedwabne happened as it was horrible crime... But SS was involved and it's pretty obvious that that was 'us or them' situation. Those Poles responsible were forced to do that and I am pretty sure if you had to commit a similar thing to save your family you wouldn't think twice... You are talking about abnormal situation - defying Nazis would mean certain death for Poles - Don't judge anyone to quickly because you don't know what you would do in such a situation. The numbers were actually 340 killed, not 1600 as you imply, it doesn't make too much difference, a massacre is a massacre, horrible enough. Anyway it's always good to check what you are writing instead telling porkies... And you might not be aware of the fact that Jedwabne between 1939-41 was under Sovier occupation and many of those Jews were active NKVD collaborators. Do you know what what it implicates? I do not want to say that 'eye for eye' is good approach to life but it only shows how abnormal thet situation there was... Jedwabne wouldn't happen without NKVD and Gestapo around."

Moryc Beniowski
United States
Jul.08.2009
rates this page 3/5

""Freedom and tolerance are best scale of civilisation standards, not the number of burned corpses on stakes like in germany... " Throwing stones in a glass house is ill-advised. In July 1941 residents of Jedwabne, a little village about 85 miles northeast of Warsaw, beat, bludgeoned and knifed 1,600 of their Jewish neighbors. The ones who weren't stabbed to death were locked in a barn and burned. For years, the town blamed the Gestapo and the Nazi occupation police for the massacre (a plaque was hung stating so)-a cowardly act. The people of Jedwabne walked by knowing the info on the plaque was a lie. The same atrocities were committed five days before the Jedwabne killings, in Radzilow and Wasosz. Crimes such as these were little noted at the time, nor since included in Polish history books. No "high horses" allowed on either side!"

Hrothgar
Denmark
Jul.08.2009
rates this page 3/5

"A quick question to that nameless American of German Swiss origin... You are talking about traditional German contempt towards Poles. Do you still cherish that? Does it give you a thrill of superiority? Poland is as old as Germany and around 4 times older than USA and her culture is equally reach to any other European country. I wonder what's your attitude towards Mexicans in USA - do you feel contempt, too? Shame mate, shame on you... "

Moryc Beniowski
Poland
Jul.07.2009
rates this page 5/5

"Don't you guys have anything better to do? Wrocław origins are Slavic and it was only lost by Poland due to a disastrous Mongol invasion of 1241 when 3/4 of Silesian population was killed. That's when German settlers started moving in to fill the gap, but they were good subjects of Polish rule till Czechs took over and after them Austrians. Geramny as such took Wroclaw only at the end of XVIII century. Is that really that long? About Teutonic Knights and so on... Battle of Grunwald was won by then Polish-Lithuanian forces. It wasn't easy, no one says that, but Teutons brought all those naive 'crusaders' who thought they were going to defend christianity. Poland by then was Christian for almost 500 years, good to see idiots paying for their stupidity... Polish german relations were pretty good throughout the centuries, except 10-11 centuries and 19-20 we were quite good neighbours. Polish forces were helping emperor quite a few times, germans were coming to Poland as it was only one country in Europe where they could preach any religion they wanted and economy was so much better than anywhere else in Europe. Poland in 15-17 century was a country to live in... Only when friedrich the Great and his cousin Catherine the great of Russia came to power relations deteriorated. And Otto Bis,marck was the men who injected the real hatred into it. Understandable - none of European powers wanted Polish hussars ruling Europe again, so let play it down as much as we can... German contempt fro barbarian Poland??? I only want to say one thing - when in Germany thousands of women were burned alive on stakes during the witchcraft histeria and Inquisition was absolute rulers of people lives in Poland religious haven, prosperity and freedom ruled. In Poland you could say whatever you wanted, preach any religion or idea you wanted and absolutely no one was able to do anything about it. Freedom and tolerance are best scale of civilisation standards, not the number of burned corpses on stakes like in germany... "

Moryc Beniowski
United States
Jul.07.2009
rates this page 5/5

""To the German morons who claimed that the Teutonic Knights had a glorious past, just look at how the Poles easily defeated them at Grunwald. Learn humility!!!" What's with the attack on Germans? Your opinion is immediately discredited with ignorant bias like that. The Battle of Gunwald/ Tannenberg was NOT a struggle between Germans and Slavs as is inappropriately promoted through propaganda on both sides! It was the Teutonic State (Ordensstaat) vs. the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. State vs. State. Realize the Teutonic Order corrupted its original mission in Europe, when Lithuania finally accepted Christianity. The Order has a very turbulent, and not so glorious, history after 1198. The Order had considerable holdings in Germany and elsewhere. The Order had an agenda independent of the German Empire. Formally an institution of the Hospitallers, the pope commanded that the prior and the brothers of the domus Theutonicorum (house of the Germans) should always be Germans themselves, so a tradition of a German-led religious institution developed. "Based on the model of the Knights Templar it was, however, transformed into a military order in 1198 and the head of the order became known as the Grand Master (magister hospitalis). It received Papal orders for crusades to take and hold Jerusalem for Latin Christianity and defend the Holy Land against the Muslim Saracens. During the rule of Grand Master Hermann von Salza (1209-1239) the Order changed from being a hospice brotherhood for pilgrims to primarily a military order. The German historian Heinrich von Treitschke used imagery of the Teutonic Knights to promote pro-German and anti-Polish rhetoric. Such imagery and symbols were adopted by many middle-class Germans who supported German nationalism. The converse was also true for Polish nationalism, which used the Teutonic Knights as a symbolic short-hand for Germans in general, conflating the two into an easily recognizable image of the hostile 'Other.' Even today, the Teutonic Knights and the Battle of Grunwald are often invoked by the media in Poland and also by society in general when engaged in antagonistic relations with Germans or the Federal Republic of Germany. However, in spite of these references to the Teutonic Order's history in the propaganda, the Order itself was abolished in 1938 and its members were persecuted by the Nazi regime." source-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Knights. Anyway, the Poles and Lithuanians failed to take Marienburg despite the Commonwealth's victory. Moreover, Polish, Lithuanians, Saracens, some Czech's, Ruthenians, and many others were part of the Polish/ Lithuanian army. Poland did NOT defeat the Teutonic Order all by themselves as was suggested. Many factors came in to play in the defeat of the Teutonic Order that day. To get a proper, perspective, read sources from Germany, Poland, and Lithuania. That is the only way to find a truthful balance about this historic battle. Don't fall in to the biased propaganda trap. It swindles people to accept half-lies as whole truths."

Heinrich von Plötzke
Poland
May.21.2009
rates this page 3/5

"Guglielmo Alberto Wladimiro Alessandro Apollinare de Kostrowitzky: According to his baptism certificate, he was baptized Guglielmus Apollinaris Albertus Kostrowitzky in Rome. He is considered a French poet, and was naturalized c.1916 in France. He was of Swiss, Italian, Polish ancestry."

Italy
May.15.2009
rates this page 3/5